Hasan Piker
⤏ IN CONVERSATION WITH DAVE1
⤏ PHOTOS BY CARLY PALMOUR | STYLING BY FAYE ORLOVE
⤏ ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED FEBRUARY 2020
Neither Dave 1 nor Hasan Piker were available to flex on how handsome they both are and provide us with an introduction. After some hasty Googling, your faithful editors were able to piece together some tiny nuggets of how we think Hasan would like to be introduced. He is a political commentator originally from Turkey, known primarily for being a talking head on YouTube’s biggest news show, The Young Turks. His Instagram is full of thirst traps and the anarchist agenda. He’d love for you to watch his nearly constant Twitch stream which he hopes will fund his gaming addiction and earn his father’s respect. Hasan is a staple of political Twitter and is a well known Leftist Thot.
Piker is polarizing, but we tend to agree with his socialist leanings and his legion of fans. Speaking of Hasan’s fandom, even this interview was conducted live, on Twitch, for millions of viewers. We can only hope as many people sit down to read it.
DAVE: For people who are not aware of you, you can come off like a hyper-masculine cis bro, right? That's the elephant in the room. Hyper-masculine cis bro, and yet your politics are sort of the opposite of that, or the opposite of what that connotes. I want to know if you are aware of that contrast. I think you cultivate it. I think you play into it. I think it plays to your advantage.
HASAN: You’re absolutely correct. I am aware of my hyper-masculine bro-like personality. It’s not even cultivated — it’s just who I am. Human beings are very complex. My worldview has been shaped by my experiences as a cisgender, heterosexual man growing up in Turkey and America.
Sometimes I will engage in language that showcases my privilege, or my humor definitely shows that I come from a point of privilege. I acknowledge all of that. I think that it’s a constant journey and struggle to work against that as best as possible, but that’s what gives me a tremendous advantage. Of course I have a lot of privilege. I’m white-passing. I am conventionally attractive by Western and heteronormative standards.
This also means people listen to what I have to say. That sucks for people who do not conform, and we must do everything we can to shatter rigid structures that were created before us. While I work towards that, I try to use my privilege for good. I try to do my best to understand the struggle that marginalized communities go through and try to voice their concerns as best as I possibly can.
I have a Discord full of complex individuals from different backgrounds, different ethnic backgrounds, different sexualities, different religious beliefs, and most of them are on the left. Some of them are more leftist than others. I try to be open-minded to every single person.
Honestly, one of the biggest struggles is bringing newcomers into that community. That’s a huge part of community building, obviously. But in order to be able to welcome new people into your movement, you have to understand that not everyone was born as woke as we are, and that we weren’t even that woke when we were younger. It takes time.
D: I agree with what you were saying. I think “woke-ness” is acquired and developed and it’s also something that’s dynamic. It’s ever-changing. You and I are both part of ethnic communities.
H: Yeah. My goal is always to build an intersectional movement. I believe that intersectionality has to feature class as the foundation. I think that people who talk about intersectionality in academic circles also believe this. Unfortunately, that concept has been bastardized and commodified by the media, which is an institution that reinforces our hegemonic capitalist structure. Intersectionality with class is the glue that ties us together. It’s how we are able to show a working class white American who is living in a dire condition in a state like West Virginia, that they shouldn’t be without healthcare, they shouldn’t have to wait in line once every five months for dental care, they shouldn’t exist as if they live in a developing nation in the middle of the wealthiest nation on Earth. But they do because of the oppressive economic organization that we all exist under.
“. . . authentic masculinity that isn't toxic — just like traditional femininity — comes from within.”
D: I absolutely believe the same. And maybe it’s optimistic, but it’s sort of the bedrock of our belief system. I want to go back to the masculinity thing. The right has long celebrated a figure of hyper-masculinity, hyper-virility. We don’t see that culturally on the left as much. Are you trying to create the persona of the hyper-masculine socialist?
H: Yeah.
D: Are there others? Are there other Speedo-wearing, vaping, spring-breaking frat socialists out there? I know there are, but I want you to talk about them.
H: Yeah, there are. I mean, this is just a hobby. I enjoy doing these things. I’ve always enjoyed organized sports, competing with people in a physical capacity. I enjoy working out. I think a lot of people, including Donald Trump, try to create a persona for themselves that is hyper-masculine when in fact they aren’t. And I think authentic masculinity that isn’t toxic, just like traditional femininity, comes from within. And it’s not something that you’re supposed to heighten on purpose, or lean into.
But with Donald Trump, it’s performative. He’s not a traditionally masculine figure. As a matter of fact, he’s very sassy. Qualities that you would never really associate with traditional masculinity are present within Donald Trump. Men like him are making up for a personal insecurity they might have. And I think a lot of people on the right do this. So what I try to show people is, and this pertains to both the left and the right, you can be confident in your masculinity. I think that’s healthier overall than not being confident in your masculinity and trying to make up for your personal insecurities by overcompensating.
D: We have the luxury to afford to say, "Hey, this is not a binary."
H: Yeah. And maybe this is problematic for me to say, but I do feel — and I hope people don’t think that this is being paternalistic or white savior complex-y — as someone with that privilege, I have a responsibility to do my best. To do everything I can to undo oppressive structures, oppressive constructs, and utilize my privilege for what I believe is good, to fight for progress, to get reactionary people to pay attention to what I have to say and then sway them in a different direction.
D: How do you articulate your socialism with your feminism?
H: Feminism that does not root itself in uplifting women of the working class cannot be true to the egalitarian principles at the foundation of a feminist ideal. A problem that you see in contemporary feminism, and it’s not monolithic of course, but contemporary feminism loses sight of the intersectionality that has class as its foundation. And I call this shallow liberal feminism — or shallow liberalism. Some other people like to call it “white feminism.” There are also different elements within that. There are different kinds of movements within the feminist umbrella that are reactionary like TERFs, trans-exclusionary radical feminists, or SWERFs, sex worker-exclusionary radical feminists. But even beyond that, most of the contemporary feminism that we see — that does not find its roots within a Marxist construct — oftentimes misses the mark entirely on what feminism is supposed to accomplish. And we’re two masculine dudes talking about this so obviously this is going to be frustrating for some people to hear.
D: Let's just privilege check ourselves a little bit.
H: Listen, they can check me on this all day. But I come with the receipts. And the people that have taught me this are socialist feminists themselves. So I’m not making this up as I go along. This is Angela Davis, this is her perspective. And this is perfectly represented, for example, in Nike ads that play all across the Western hemisphere, specifically in countries that have ransacked the developing world and have benefited tremendously from imperialism, colonization, and slavery. These ads that run for Nike in countries like the United States showcase powerful women, powerful athletes. And these women absolutely have tremendous accomplishments and they are genuinely fighting the good fight in their own way. But the commodification of that activism...
“. . . that is the frustrating reality and the inherent contradiction in shallow liberal feminism. On the one hand, you’re showcasing representation and women in positions of power. But the entire machine is fueled by women that are being oppressed.”
D: There's a massive capitalistic exploitative juggernaut behind all of it.
H: And what's backing that, though? Nike can play these ads about women in hijabs and how Serena Williams is incredible —and they are incredible and what they're doing is incredible — but, the way that they do this is still at the expense of exploited labor in the third world inside of sweatshops where it's predominantly women working in dire conditions. Nike would not be able to reach its profit margin without relying heavily on third world exploitation. So that is the frustrating reality and the inherent contradiction in shallow liberal feminism. On the one hand, you're showcasing representation and women in positions of power. But the entire machine is fueled by women that are being oppressed.
D: Changing subjects, a moment of honesty. Since #MeToo, has your behavior changed personally and if so, how? Because I think it's safe to say that mine has in my conversations, in my public stances as an artist, but also in my private life.
H: It definitely has. I think that one of the things that I have said consistently throughout the beginning of the #MeToo movement and all the way until now, is that sexuality is very complicated. Gender is very complicated. And even within the socially taught heteronormative understanding of the sexual binary — which does not exist and is falling apart at this point — it is really difficult to figure out the realm of acceptability. Now people will say, "Oh, come on, consent." Like it's that easy. It's not. It's not that easy, because there are still always going to be gray areas. And I think that is an ongoing conversation that needs to be had.
And, of course, I’m on the side of women. I’ve definitely changed ways that I talk to both women and men, explicitly because I do not want to confuse anyone. I don’t want to ever be in a gray area. I want to minimize that gray area as best as possible. One, in an effort of self-preservation, certainly. I’ll admit that’s the real side of things. But more importantly than that, in an effort to make sure I minimize harm, because there’s always going to be harm in relationships. Relationships are complicated.
D: I want to make sure that this interview, especially when transcribed, does not come off as sanctimonious and overly confident. This is ever evolving, ever-changing. As men, as white-passing, cis, heterosexual men, I think we have a lot to learn. And I think we are faced with new challenges, and I think there's a lot of progress for us to make in our private interactions, in our private relationships and also in the acknowledging of our privilege in certain spaces. Would you agree with that?
H: I do, and it’s an ongoing dynamic, which is precisely why I try to be as understanding and as welcoming as possible to people who are receptive to that change. That’s at the heart of what I believe in. And that’s how I try to build a community. And I am a little bit more open-minded to people’s privilege blind spots. And intersectionality needs that understanding, I think. Otherwise, your movement is going to shrink into smaller and smaller fractions until it’s just two people fighting about whatever sectarian differences they have that they consider to be a grave offense. When in fact, the much larger problem at hand is structural and needs to be dealt with through solidarity. And this extends to every aspect of our lives, and every aspect of our lives can be improved. And it certainly extends to dating and masculinity and femininity and sexuality and gender constructs, as well. So, yeah, I’ve grown up a lot.
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⤏ DAVE1 (HE/HIM) IS 1/2 OF THE ELECTRO-FUNK DUO CHROMEO. HE CURRENTLY RESIDES IN NEW YORK WHERE HE IS A PROFESSOR OF FRENCH AT BARNARD COLLEGE.